Kentucky Mule: Building A Dance Floor Community Through Americana

Your phone can show you a thousand perfect lives in a minute, but it can’t replace the feeling of locking eyes with a stranger on a dance floor. We talk with Bill on bass, Lizzie on fiddle, and Coleton on guitar and vocals about building an Americana sound in Santa Cruz that’s designed for movement, not just background listening. They share the real origin story: a Western Wednesday cover night sparks a lineup that refuses to part ways, then the band’s originals take over.

We get into the craft of songwriting and collaboration, from how a halftime switch can rescue a shaky draft to why some musicians write in bursts and others build songs out loud on long commutes with voice memos. The conversation also goes deeper than music: what Santa Cruz means when you love the place but feel the frustration of housing, inequity, and the “vacation town” myth, and how those tensions show up in lyrics like “Old Joe.” Then we dig into story songs like “Reno Cure,” inspired by the little known history of women traveling to Reno to divorce and reclaim autonomy.

We also talk day jobs and real service work, including veteran services, PTSD counseling access, and why resources can feel impossible to navigate without a clear hub. Along the way, we make a case for live music, Western swing, and community dance culture as an antidote to the algorithm, a way to get out of the scroll and back into your body.

If you’re craving live music in Santa Cruz, Americana country that feels alive, and practical places to plug into the scene, press play and come dance with us. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a night out, and leave a review with the last show that made you feel present.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introductions

0:02

Welcome to the On the Coast Podcast. Hello, hello, and welcome back to the podcast. Randy Jones with KWC, and to my right is Buffalo Trust Country Mortgage. Jared Figures with Figure and E shirt. We had a really exciting show today. We have our first name. Yes, let's go. We've got who I have met who I know from Beach Volleyball, who's let me just tell you her abs are amazing. She is a star volleyball player, and an amazing mother, a beautiful family, two high school age children, no crime. No one's graduating. It's very simple. Oh big moment. Can you bring the community together through music? So tell us introduce yourself, you guys. I'm Bill. You're meaning. I play bass. I'm Lizzie Smith and I play fiddle. I'm Colton too. And I play guitar and I sing. Nice.

How The Band Meets And Grows

1:05

So how did you guys meet? What's the classic story on this? Man, well, I met our guitar player, Scott Willis, at a festival, and we just got to chatting about this like Western Wednesday night that have at Mo's Alley. And he had this dream of doing like a 90s women kind of cover song, you know, band throw some friends together and you know has a doll tree on the things. And he said, Lizzie, you'd be great, I'm filled all. And so yeah. So then I was like, well, tell me about your band. And I came out to see them. And I was like, oh man, how do I wiggle my way into that band? How does one wiggle their way into a band? Tell us, do tell. Well, they they were actually part of that band that uh for the Western Wednesday night with the 90s cover songs. And so we were rehearsing for that. And then I don't know, just you know, we were playing back some songs we were working working on, and and Colin was like, man, if you know that'd sound cool if we had fiddle in our band, you know. And I was like, hmm, I I know a fiddle player. Yeah, and I called him, I was like, I mean, I'm not kidding. Like, if you if you're you know, and he's like, Well, let me talk to the guys, and yeah. Yeah, we the the original band was Kentucky Mule, and I had met Scott through like local shows. That's our guitar player, Scott Willis. And then Scott was friends with Will and was already in a band with Will. Yeah, Scott and I had a group, a couple groups, yeah. And then the the Western Wednesday concept was sort of like an offshoot of of the band that had already existed. And so then once we did this sideshow and she sounded so good and everything, and we were doing sweet part harmonies, and we're like, wow, it'd be really cool if you know our original music sounded this. No, and so we we yeah, after we did that one Western Wednesday, we couldn't couldn't part ways. Well, your voice is sounds like bass. Oh yeah, it's like also nice sing bass. How long have you guys been together? Three years. Three years. Yeah. So she wiggled her way in. She did. And you guys are making your own music now? Yeah, it's it always has been. It always has been, yeah, yeah. The the thing that brought her in was an all-cover show for Wester When you said project. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, for for about a year before she came came on board, we were already playing original, original music. The the big batch of tunes that got us started, at least before Will started writing songs and and throwing songs in as well. So now it's kind of a mix. But when we first started when the pandemic hit, I was home in a way that I hadn't in in years. And I just started writing music. And I had grown up listening to Country and Blue Grass, but I never really tried to write that as an artist. Yeah, being home, having a lot more disposable time. Uh I circled back to a genre that I I didn't think that I was that interested in writing, and then it ended up being the most comfortable and natural genre that I'd ever written, and then it turned into the Statue of Songs, and then I met these guys, Will and Will and Scott, took off. When you say for the first time you start writing, and there's that horrible place, and they say the classic place for a musician to go to write is sorrow or sadness. And we're in the middle of a pandemic, we've or a start of a pandemic. How did you pull yourself in and out of that phase to be creative? Yeah, if anything, I think my music was more sorrowful in previous projects. I was doing like indie folk, like kind of like that, like more singer songwriter, kind of. And then this pandemic pandemic happens, and you know, we we kept talking about it's it's gonna be the roaring twenties. It's gonna there's gonna be so much energy after this. It just gave me chills on that. Yeah, like and I just kept hearing that that phrase sewn around, and I just started imagining music that I would want to kind of like exist in and listen to after all this, you know, all this pent-up time is is over. And that's what that's what came out of it. It was just imagining the the fun stuff I'd want to dance to when I could. No doubt. I always like the human connection. No, and so no, yeah, yeah, they're they're great. And I'm always I'm always interested in like stepping one step back because I think of like, you know, so you come in, artists getting together, artists having an idea, certain genre of music. And the thing about artistry is sometimes you have an individual ownership of it. And I'm always interested in like how do you bands always fascinate me because that merging of individual concept of this is what I see as art, this is what I see in my head when I write a lyric, and this is what I but but to talk to me about that in the early formation and the expansion of the band a little bit. You know, like like is it hard to kind of abdicate a little bit of your vision with other people, or is it just natural? For me, it depends. Yeah, it always depends. Because like there are some things that you have like a very clear vision of like how how you want it to sound and what instruments can be doing what and where the stops and starts and everything. But a lot of times, at least for me, I I don't have that going into it. I think that's like part of the writing process is like you get like these lyrics and chords down, and then you're kind of like, oh, what do I do for the you know what I mean? And I think the advantage of being in a band, especially this band, is that like when you bring it to these guys, they all have great ideas on like how to be, oh, what if we did this here, or like move this piece, you know, to the end or repeat this or whatever. And then like so that's that's like the the real joy of like being is this collaboration. He's completely changed like the feel of some of the songs that I wrote where I was like, you know, oh I'm on the fissit about this, or I don't really like it. Or I'm feeling not so confident about it, and he'll go, Yeah, what if we did a what if we did halftime instead or something like that, and then all of a sudden this song has a completely different feel to it, and that only comes through collaboration. Yeah.

Writing Through The Pandemic Aftershock

6:54

And sometimes you write a song and you hear every moving part exactly the way that it's gonna be, and I you know, I want you to do this, this, this, this. And then sometimes it's like, you know, I barely have any concept at all, and then they kind of build the blanks. I think that's what makes I think bands work so well that I mean, like, I'm I have too big of an ego to be in a band, right? Like I think you have to be able to share that creativity and know that it's part of the the group creative vision, right? And I that's one thing I love about your music, actually, is that it sounds so effortless for you guys to put that that sound out, right? And I don't think that's easy for a lot of bands to do. It's I think that's Lizzie. Yeah. Lizzie. The effortless part that shines through to me is always Lizzie. It sounds like she's been playing whatever song it is, like it can be a song we've only been doing for a week, but it now sounds like we've been doing it for years because of how at home she sounds and everything. I don't know. We all just get along so well too. And I mean, the last couple songs you guys have brought new ones in, like they they're like, hey, I wrote this song, and you know, here's the chord structure, and I'll like play it and we'll jump in in 15 seconds and we'll play it through. And it's like, okay, that one's done. Like everyone just kind of like finds their space and but don't go so fast past that. Like, let's go one step back again for you. Like, so they bring it in, and then how do you hear it? Like, what do you what's your process? Like, what's your process when they they come in with this blank canvas, not blank, it's it's structured, but then you hear it. What's your kind of like take on it? Yeah, I I well I I grew up playing Suzuki, which you know you learn like you play by ear, by early violin. Yeah, totally. So I think that has helped me, you know, in these circumstances. Like I didn't know. Can you tell me what that is? Tell you what what is that method? What is it? You just you listen, like they when I was little, they had like tapes and you would listen to a song on a tape and you like memorize it, you just hear it and you memorize it. So it was like you didn't learn to read music, you like it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like chord-based and progression, right? Like a lot of progression. Oh, yeah, but a lot of the school. Yeah. You had them at tape, you listened to them. Hey. But it sounds like it's a combination. Yeah, it sounds like it's a combination of being like super confident in whether it be the words or whatever it may be, but then also getting in with the group and being able to kind of park your ego a little bit on some levels. It feels like that that kind of is that a combination of what it is a little bit? So you come in with the authority of what you brought to the table. Collaboration, I guess what I'm saying is collaboration is not easy. Yeah. I mean, you're making it sound kind of this group and make it unique. And I think that's why maybe that's what stresses bands over a long period of time is the individual artistry trying to break out because collaboration, dude, that was just in here before, Chris from San Cruz Athletic Club, different business, different model, same problems in a way. Like how do you basically kind of keep maintaining ethos? This would be in a band, a vision within a band, all of these different pieces, but let's just talk about that collaborative kind of style. Yeah, I think as a creator, you need to you need to be in a group that you trust along the way because there are genuinely so many instances that I can think of off the top of my head on the tune. Where you know the song wouldn't have been as good without and that's just that's just that. And we've tried our band with different iterations. There's times when people have to sit things out, and you really get to see how much their voicings and how much them being there. Like Liz, for example, Liz is amazing in the life that she's tried to sort of like build for her family because she goes back to where she's from part of the year and creates this experience for her kids where they they see where her mom's from and then her her husband's from here, and so they have this like split life. But that means several months out of the year, we don't do shows with Liz. That's interesting. That's interesting, yeah. Like a missing body part almost, right? Like yeah, interesting. How dare you? Missing Liz completely or fill in instrument, not Liz. Yeah, that's just every time she's not there. We have we there's there's another musician in town that uh plays some keys who's played keyboards with us before. And some I don't actually know if there's been one that Liz couldn't make that argues at. But yeah, having another instrument at least kind of like takes up sonically, you know, like it takes something out of the space. But it doesn't drive to the same age. Is there dopamine in it though, trying to like, I'm not saying like survive those, those, those gigs. Not at all. What I'm saying is like it's a recreation of the song, right? It's a recreation of the audience experience. And is there some energy behind that? Like, you know, like it's almost like a like I always think of it athletically. Star player, if you want to call it that, not in this one, but a key player goes down, everybody raises their game a little bit in different ways. Does that happen? Yeah, Scott will play more solos. Yeah, I'll play solos from time to time. Yeah, and that's good. We've started adding like big solos in the mix. You get creative, yep. But we've done, I mean, when we first started the band, I was doing like kick with my left and then a tambourine strapped to my right from it. And I was doing the whole like like we've played shows where it was just like me, Will, and John. It was me doing like foot drums. Like there's just been like we have the benefit of having tried weird iterations. Like I started as a solo wife, so I started to get really weird with like how can I make a monica? I played Monica, I do

Collaboration Without Losing The Vision

12:40

the the foot drums while playing guitar and singing, and I'm like, how can I make it sound like as many people as possible on stage without it being true? And so I think that like that that at least makes people missing a little bit easier to manage because we've we've seen what it looks like when Yeah, sure. So they're just two guitar bass drums. Yeah. Now are you guys are you guys doing this full time? Is this kind of like side side project stuff? Yeah, I I agree. I mean, yeah, we all know we all have jumped to that. I mean, it's amazed because I I like looked at and and listened to a lot of your albums you put out. There's a lot of original stuff in there. Yeah, it's all fun and time. I mean you have very few covers in there, but like Wicked Games, like one of my favorite ones you do, and I feel like you guys put like a lot of energy into making that your own. It's pretty cool. Thank you. Yeah. How is the music scene here in Santa Cruz? Is it supportive? Is there a lot of venues for you to play? What's that like? It's a really special place. That could be loaded, that could go two different ways. That sentence could go two ways right now. I've never like because I've lived in I've lived in Chico, I'm from View County, so I'm from a small town called Ridley. Yeah. And so I've lived like near Chico, I've lived in LA. So I've kind of like lived all of I've lived in the Bay Area. This is the most inclusive and interactive place to do music that I've ever experienced. Like how quickly we went from doing sort of like one-off bar shows to feeling like we were included in dance events and all of that stuff. Like and I also do dance events, like as a dancer. And so I've never I've never lived in a city that's so excessive as like someone who wants to do art or just a creature. Interesting. There's galleries, there's dance events, there's shows. Yeah. Because I clearly take that for granted. Being living here for forever. Well, one of the biggest issues going on. I'm not saying this issue, I I'm I'm connected to it through Vibes, the magazine, and our different things that we do. But one of being in these conversations on podcasts is a lack of connectivity through Santa Cruz, a culture problem in Santa Cruz. It's a conversation. I push back against it because my thought is maybe the first thing before you complain about it is step in, step, step into the community, step into these spaces before you kind of are looking on the outside in. There is a lot of there is a lot of singular communities. There's a lot of things going on here, but you do like any other good relationship, you have to kind of like meet it with some equity, you know, and find these places and go in support. That's a really good point. I mean, like, just just like with any other relationship, what are what are you going to get out of it if you're not putting it in? Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah, like that, that's really well said. I mean, I felt like I lived in a I mean, talk about like I said, like I I I moved here 10 years ago. So what a third of a half to a third of the time that I lived here, everything was open, normal, and then everything closed down. And so coming out of the pandemic 2022, 23, it felt like nothing happens here. Like I'm living in a yes, the void place. All my friends moved away. Like right? It was it was a weird, it was a weird time. And it took us a long time to kind of like reopen and get back to the same routines. Yeah. And everyone that I knew here was mainly from college because that's why I moved here. And so I was a transfer student. I was in my like mid-20s when I came here to go to school. And so I was already starting my life over in my mid-20s in a new city, made a bunch of friends through college and and working here and living here, and then I'm not getting like three three-quarters of my friends that were from here, like just either decided it's too expensive or whatever, but like during the pandemic, all that. And so when I was coming out of that era, it just felt like there was nothing here. Where's all the art? Where's the but it was, you know, I'm the one that didn't that hadn't found it yet. It wasn't that that it wasn't here. And so when I started getting, I started getting

Santa Cruz Music Scene And Belonging

16:40

UCSE? Yeah, correct. What are the careers outside of the band? I work at the bagel. Nice. I'm looking at you this whole time, going like photographic memory like we'll be out and he'll go, like hummus on. But when you're in that industry, that's all anybody ever is, is what they order. I guarantee you. If you've ever been on that other side of the regime, which I have been, it's not the human. It's they're just their order. It's like being in prison, it's your cell number. You're the hummus guy. That's really good. How about you? I was also I was thinking about like, you know, in Looney Times when people like turn into food. That's exactly that's exactly it. That's a locks with onions. I'm in I'm in social services. So right on. Wow, that's tough. I'm the director of veteran services for Monterey. Oh, exactly. Right on. Right on. Fulfilling, intimidating, frustrating. It's all especially I've been in the that that lane. So providing services for folks that are unhoused for like 10 years. And the last five have been with veterans, and it's a totally different body. Yeah. I worked with families and single moms mainly. I were experiencing homelessness when I first went into that line of work, and that's a different energy than mainly like a lot of a lot of men. I mean, lately, obviously there's there's a lot of different versions of what it is to be a veteran, but shifting to the energy that veterans bring to the table was a crazy experience. Yeah. Yeah. I have a question that because I actually had to go through PTSD counseling. Yeah. And they would say, We don't know how to help you. One, you're a woman, and two, you're not a veteran, so you don't have services. Right. So it's gone. This was about seven years ago. It's a lot better now here. But for your veterans, where do they go for their counseling? I'm just curious because where do you go for PTSD counseling? Yeah, they have the VA hospital. So in this area, thankfully, Palo Alto is not too far away. But I mean, they're experiencing what a lot of people are experiencing, what and then all over the place are experiencing is you know, where do you get access to the things that you need? There's no one stop shop. Every county is completely different. You've got, I mean, every single marginalized and disenfranchised group that's in in every county has to do this process over again if they move or if they go somewhere new. And then most of the time, even if they live their their entire lives, they find out, like, oh, this service was here, I didn't know, because there is no, you know, one one stop place to look at all the things that you need. Like even working in this line of work, like someone will be like, oh, like if you have a resource for this, and I'll find like a new provider for a county that I've been working in for years. I'm like, wow, I didn't even know this this existed. And I'm in this line of work. Yeah, it's I think getting what you need when you need it is the hardest, the hardest part. And when you're already going through things, that can be 10 times harder. It's definitely a fog.

Day Jobs And Veteran Services Reality

19:48

Back to the bagel read. It's our favorite guy of the day so far. Like a part of the community, and you see things, and you also come out of the pandemic, and then you're in the music world. What does Santa Cruz mean to you? Like you really get to see the day-to-day minutiae. I'm ordering a bagel, but I'm either in a shitty mood because my kids are making me late, or I'm in a great mood, or like what is it about here? That's that's always a tough question to answer because I'm also I'm the third generation of my family to do from here. Yeah, and I haven't lived like you know, long term anywhere else. So I have like a very I would say I have like a like a special jadism. Yeah. I mean it's like, yeah, there's like there's elements, yeah, where like you get, you know, you get traded or you feel like you like take it for granted or something. And then a lot of times I'm like really frustrated. Yeah. Yeah. Inequity. Like, yeah, like I mean, yeah, housing and equity, the homelessness, like it's just there's a lot of things to get like really frustrated at. And you know, I don't I don't get frustrated at the homeless. That's right. You know, no, like I just it like it sucks. Like it there's for as many like great things that there are about this place, there's like a lot of it that's just like so frustrating to like make part of your day-to-day. I always make the comparison sometimes. It's more like you kind of look at it as if you don't you can individually point things out, but it's just an ecosystem. We live in an ecosystem here, and certain parts of it might be like a coral reef. I'm talking about humans though. Yeah. You know, and that there's a part of it where it's like we need to kind of like find a way as a group to basically make the whole ecosystem healthier. You know, and there's different ways to do it. But I I totally I think I'm reading between the lines are all a bunch of people. I can't remember, we always do our generation one. I'm like fourth generation around here. But I think the one thing about Santa Cruz that's maddening when you are second, third, fourth generation. Sometimes you get through and you feel like you can't quite grab the Santa Cruz everybody's talking about. You know, there's there's a there's a narrative about Santa Cruz, and you know you live in this amazing place, and we talk about it all the time, but I do know there's that underlying frustration. Sometimes I can't get my hands on the Santa Cruz that I either want it to be or what I was told it was. And so that could be a little bit frustrating. I think that's a good thing. And it's just the one we live in every single day, right? Like that's the thing. Like we live in everybody's vacation spot, which we should be like, this is amazing. We got Big Sur, Monterey. People travel around the world to get there. But yeah, we don't go there on the weekends because it's too trafficy to get there, right? There's so many aspects of Santa Cruz. I I can definitely resonate with what you're saying that, you know, I've lived here my whole life, my parents before that, my grandparents before that. And there's some aspects that have never changed, and it's maybe the things that should have changed. And that's the part where we're this progressive kind of like center, but there's so many aspects of this town that haven't been progressive at all. And that's frustrating. Totally. I think speaking out loud is the first step. Seeing out loud, being transparent about it, and doing something about it is the other one. But let's circle this back to the music a little bit.

Loving Santa Cruz While Feeling Frustrated

23:07

Does that uh the good, the bad, all of it, does some of that make its way, that angst on some level make its way into the lyrics? Yeah, for me, for sure. We've got songs that touch on, you know, sort of like something that you when you were talking about like this idea of Santa Cruz that people are trying to achieve, I think about that as it applies to like the American dream, right? Like people people have thought that they could achieve this idea of something that was described to them for a really long time. And we've got songs that describe that feeling, like you're working as hard as you possibly can, but you're not getting any further ahead. Is that the lyric? No, but uh what's kind of the lyric that would be associated-ish with that? Yeah, like we've got a song called Old Joe. Yeah. Old Joe's basically has a narrative just about someone who's who's getting out working as hard as they can every single day. Yeah. And it's not amounting to any change in their life. And I feel that. I'm sure other people feel that too. And you know, as someone that isn't from here, that doesn't have you know generations of roots here, yeah. Um you know, it can be hard to imagine yourself further on down the road in a place that just keeps getting more. Can you give us two or three of those lyrics just to kind of hear it a little bit? Yeah. Let me think. Yeah. Joe's half broke as soon as he gets paid working in the sun, sun for minimum wage. He sees his whole life as passing it by. Yeah, that's I mean, that's great. Yeah. So that's I love that part of it. I I love that the back end of it because we we we throw, we we go really fast by that thing. It's like, oh, breakups make good records, things like that. It's like, you tell me about it. Tell me about that, the the process of that. Sometimes it's painful and sometimes it's it's joyous, and sometimes it's you know, there's euphoria in it and things like that. But I I love that part of the process. Yeah. I want to go into, and I kind of always circle back on it. We've all lived enough to like where we had a phone, yeah, and now we scroll. Sure. Do you think that the American dream premiere visions or the Santa Cruz dream is vastly changing because it's in a scroll? And you find emotions in the scroll. Because think about it, like you're getting so much content that somebody else is doing at nanoseconds and it's going straight to your subconscious. I mean, the scroll the scroll is whatever the problem with with an algorithm that fits itself to you is eventually you're not going to be exploring it, right? It's sort of like curls down on itself. Yeah. And so, yeah, if you're if you're only seeing curated content that is constantly just wanting you to feel more about something. I think there's also something too that like when you see something beautiful or you see something fun, for me personally, the more that I see that, it doesn't sort of like result in me going out and doing that thing. It might make me feel kind of good to just see it done by someone else. So then it I I think the idea of why you like it is you think maybe one day I'll do that. Right. And the irony is the more you scroll and watch other people do things, the less likely it is that you're the reason I brought that up is I see you as a singer-songwriter who goes outside the hole. The wave is not following following on you, although you're aware of it. And I think that your music brings people outside in a in a very interesting way, outside the scroll. And I'm I'm trying to figure out how you actually do that. And I'm watching how obviously everybody it's fun to talk and be in a band, but there's something deeper going on. I mean, it's like, you know, it's so focused around a dance culture like that, is just inherently going to be like you like anti-scroll. Yes, yeah. Yeah, you would have to you have to go and like face somebody and handler and you talk about the dance culture, you're talking about like old uh country western stuff like this one. That's where Liz is off to tonight. Yeah. No, it's it's revolutionary to to be in a room where aside from you know like the the paid photographers that are taking pictures for that event, everyone else in the center is living in this like it looks straight out of They're not doing this. Right. Like the concerts you go to now, it's it's the most remarkable thing is when you see the concert videos, it's everybody looking through their camera at a live event. Yeah, it's tripping. Yeah, yeah. Western Wednesday. Living the moment. It reminded me of like I don't know, like like Footloose or like Urban Cowboy or like all these movies from like the 80s and 90s where I was like, oh my god, these this haunt scene like straight out of a movie exists out there. And you know, it's it's really special to see a bunch of people prioritizing experience that's happening right in front of them. And that's just like very inclusive. Yeah. Totally cool. You've broken out of the current. Like if the current is this algorithm, this current is this thing we can't quite get away from. You've you've found a little. I find that with the magazine, four times a year, doing a print magazine, throwing it on the ground. You cannot pick vibes up. There's no intention to scroll. You kind of catch them for 84 pages. You catch them for 84 pages. And I think I love that part of my world, our world that we've built over there, because it's a little respite from from all this conversation we're having where you're kind of forcing them into just kind of a quiet moment, not necessarily a quiet moment for you guys, but away from these things. Yeah, totally.

Dance Culture As Anti Scroll Therapy

28:28

It's the most present that I've ever felt was and we've been in this band for three years. I've only been dancing for one. And so, like, there were a lot of times because I'm I'm not like the most I don't know, like before I started this band, I wouldn't have been the first person on dance floor. Like that just wasn't the kind of personality that I had. But after starting to make this music and being the music for events, I eventually tried it myself. Swings. Yeah, we don't we don't play line line dance. I know they exist, but I think it's kind of different music, too, isn't it? Yeah, I think it has to like and you break your heart's fine music. And there's like a whole you know, like routine to it. Like everybody like knows to meet. Yeah, they call it out. Yeah, yeah. It's gonna be all on your feed now. Yeah, it's like a local line dance organization. We do, I will tell you, Stacy and I have taken two of the classes over at the Capitol Rec Center for the Western Swing. A little intimidating at first, a little bit, you know, a little bit intimidating first, but then you realize how much by the second time you go around it, how much freedom you're allowed within the structured movement. So, yeah, there's a thing you learn, right? You kind of learn the you know, the this the steps and all of these things that you do, but then there's an incredible amount of freedom within, you know, it's like it's almost like being like an athlete. Like you you kind of figure out the fundamentals of the game, but then you make that your own. And I would pay money to see that. I got a video somewhere. I think the only thing I know is I put my fingers in my belt and I'm in my boots. You do this, and that's super comfortable. By the way, by the way, that's super comfortable for us to stand, and it's kind of badass. It's sort of badass are bad. That's a tiny little cowboy hat. I still wear the baseball hat. I haven't broken all, but that's kind of a normal thing. My friends do it. They're not thinking about they're not some of them go all-style, some of them are just loving. Honestly, what we're talking about is the same thing we talked about in all of these podcasts, is we're we're aching for human connection and community. Yeah, we're aching for it. And we we desperately breaky heart, though. Not achy breaking heart. Sorry. Is there a Project 418? Yes, the place where I took my intro to swing. Yeah, I think that changed my life. That's incredible. So I recommend anyone that wants to like get into that. Like if you go to a show and you're like, oh my god, that looks so fun that it looks inaccessible and intimidating. Project 418 is is great. And then neighbors bar that's near the ASP, they do mind dancing events. And that place is great. And that's a you know, it's it's a queer safe space, it's a really cool place to go. They're not gonna be able to do it. That you think like you're going to be judged. They cannot wait for somebody to walk through the doors that doesn't know how to dance. And I mean that genuinely. Like they cannot wait for that person walking because that's their whole life. Somebody comes in and they already know Western swing. Well, what the fuck are they doing? Right. You know, but somebody doesn't know but they're eager to kind of join it. Is that like the same reason like a paramedic can't wait for that call. Sure. Because that's what they were trained for. And I mean that not in that dramatic fashion, but don't let that part stop you from feeling awkward. Everybody's super rad about it. The teachers will end up partnering up with you and kind of get you in step and stuff. But it's I wouldn't say it's the easiest thing to do, but there's a tipping point where you kind of get through a tipping point, you're like, all right, I kind of got the mostly the groove of it. If you get mostly towards it, you can go out and have fun. Yeah, I've seen this dude go from not dancing very much to wiggling a little bit. Is there any particular like you know, like the um you know, In and Out has secret menus? Is there any secret menu vagary that activates you dancing? Yeah. Is there a menu? I'll make you whatever the hell you're Facebook. Where are we going? It's uh it's going somewhere. So anyone bring anything in to put on the special order? That's the good. Someone brought in like their own like lettuce. But I didn't like the thing. I don't like sprouts, I like lettuce, so they wanted to like they brought their own leaves. Oh yeah. Are you sure they were lettuce leaves? Yeah. What part of the music do you enjoy

Why Live Performance Beats Recording

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the most? The the writing of the music, the practice of the music, or being on stage there and being immersed in everybody's joy. It's a good question. All of it. All of it. Yeah. I like I don't like recording very much. Yeah. It's like it's it's cool and it's cool to hear it back, but the process of it is tedious. I always just think that it's more fun to just play. Just let me rip live. Yeah. I love performing. Yeah. Like, yeah, love performing, love practicing because we just get together and just hang out. Our buddy Scott is workshop, is over on the west side. And so we just go over there and set up and is it tedious because it's all in parts, separate parts? Is that the part what like when you say tedious, what? We actually did a really cool recording process where we did a lot of live. So the recent the stuff that we're working on right now with our friend Joe Caplow, another local musician up at his house. We ended up doing the bass, the drums, and Colton just live, like all at once, and then doing overdubs for Lizzie and Scott. That's awesome. So that was that was actually more fun. But then, yeah, but then like you start listening back and that's the fixing and the you know, getting the levels and picking, you know what I mean. Yeah, what are we gonna do? And I'm just like, oh, I know that's like can you do things again? Is that that thing that you did instead of your job or all these other structured things that was really fun? Do you want to try it really structured? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great way to put it. Turn it into you know all the same processes that are job. And a lyric you loved, how do you want to hear it 150 times in a row? That just another thing, right? Oh god. It's that thing if you start saying your name, eventually you can't hear your own name. Like if you start saying Brian, Brian, Brian, you start. I do. I've never tried that. I think that's why I loved doing the the drums, acoustic guitar, the bass. And all of us live. Yeah. Was that like we just did the songs four times and then went, okay, one through four, which one do you want? Gotcha. Yeah, exactly. Whereas like if you did it in takes like that and you did everything separate, I would get tired of it. I mean, as a listener, like, I love uh outlaw country, country music. I'll take a live album over a recorded album any day of the week. Any day of the week. Like you'll buy three of a death. Yeah, I rarely listen to studio. Yes, yeah. Dude, so financing versus swinging? 100%. Yes. The albums like that. Every time they're rigid and struggles like that. That's actually a really good analogy. So on the performances, I mean, I'm not a performer. I can only imagine what it would be like. Is there one that's been a standout for you guys where you just like left there and you're like on Cloud9 afterwards? Or are they all kind of

Tight Rehearsals And What Fans Feel

35:49

specific? Yeah, specific show that you played where you just came away like elated. Uh I mean, for definitely the the AJ Lee. Opening for AJ at Mo's was great. That ended up being sold out. Oh that's cool. That was a great time. I thought everybody played great. And that was like the full band, everything just like went off the out of it and stuff. But even I mean, even played a song with her too. Yeah, she came out and did a tune with the cool. Yeah. That's for revival. That's for yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think like even the even the shows with imperfections, I still come away. Just being like a lot of my life. I say that like that's not actually anytime that I mess up, I'm thinking about it like next time. Everything could have gone ten out of ten, but that one two out of ten, it's like obsession about it. Yeah, we played Sunday and I played up too. Nobody gave it a bit. So let's tell everybody what your schedule looks like and when you're playing. Well, we can fill we can fill it up with a question while you we can fill it up with a question while you're pulling that up. I think you know, one of the things is I'm listening to it this week. Two questions. One of them I ask every band that we interview eventually. But the first question, you know, for me is you know you're a full-time workers, part-time band, but when you listen to it, it feels very ambitious. You know, not only the setup of the band, but for me, it's like you always kind of look into it, and I've got a lot of friends in bands, East Coast, West Coast, here and there, and a lot of the part-time bands, with all due respect, it ends up kind of sounding part-time. Sure. Yeah. You know, I mean, there's you can't get away from that part of it, but it feels like this is, you know, it's a it's a lot of moving parts in the band, a big sound. Are you from your position in social work from the biggery? Is what's the ambitions? I mean, I think with how much we care, it's not part-time. Because like that's we practice twice a week, which when we tell other bands how much we practice, they're like that's entirely. Some bands practice like once a month, and that like blows my mind. Because we I mean, we also we have the advantage of all living in town, and like and but I think that even with our day jobs, like and Liz would say the same thing. Like we've set ourselves up to be able to do this as much as humanly possible, and we like doing it. Biggest compliment I can give you is whenever we kind of leave and you see somebody live for the first time, it's like it's just this word that Stacey and I walked out, it's like they were so tight. Like, you know, it just feels so tight to what you expected. And you know, the the measure of a band is their live performance clearly, like we've all said, exceeds the studio. You know, for a million different reasons, exceeds the studio. But you guys have got that a little bit. You kind of got that that going. And the other one that is the kind of the promotion side of it, nobody knows who you are, but they're thinking of going to see you. What can they experience? What kind of experience can they expect if they come see your band? I mean, I I used to say that the goal was to get people who said that they didn't like country to to say, like, oh, but this is really interesting. Like, I didn't I didn't know that I that I could and would like this kind of music. But now country's gotten so big, like that was that was the idea three years ago. Yeah, yeah. I'm telling you, it worked for me because you could not get me to the countryside. It had a little honky tonk nothing to I but definitely through Lizzie, I have crossed over. So here I am. Yeah, I think that like the way that we describe ourselves has kind of changed over the last week. Like we used to be like alt country, like country was the world that we were living with. And I think Americana feels more Americana, yeah. But because yeah, because like because that kind of encompasses like everything. Like Americana is like just a nice like umbrella for me. Like, oh, I hear your little RB. I feel like country's changed over the last three years, too. Like the sound, the the artists that are coming out, they feel like I mean, maybe that's mainstream by accident, but I just feel like the sound is so much different. Yeah, I think like why I like the term Americana too is Americana as a term came out because there were all these like women and like off-the-beaten path kind of stylings of this music that weren't getting recognized by falling into a genre. And so like they were like, okay, well, we'll just make our own fle, you know, Kirby, nondescript version of this off to the side. And it's perfect for us because you know, we get to do because we're not a straightforward country band. Like, we love a straightforward country. We we do a bunch of weird genre dating stuff. Yeah, because I think we just we like a lot of stuff. So it's like it's it's impossible, yeah, to like to listen to different varieties of music and as a as a musician. Yeah, but I think the way you said we like that because then that goes back to that whole piece of where you do this full

Songwriting Tricks And Story Songs

40:50

time in your hearts playing music that you like, and it doesn't fit in whatever the quote unquote genre is. I wonder if as a not as a person who enjoys music and has never been really into playing, but playing like let's say high-level sports, you get into your mind of what you should be. Does that ever get in your way of what you should be? Oh, for sure. Yeah, for me, yeah. Totally. All they want. Sometimes you have to fight it, and then sometimes you don't, and sometimes it's a good thing to not. It's kind of fun to like to step into a personality that's like outside of yourself in the writing process. Yeah, you know, yeah. I've been like I have other friends and and people in my life that are performers, and I've been thinking about like because I think my goal up until recently has been to like try and be as close to myself as possible on stage. And I've heard heard other people describe the like the process of getting far as far away as possible from yourself is actually the more liberating versions, like create a you that doesn't care about anything. It's interesting. I did an interview. You might I don't even know if you know the band, but Brian Roberts from Ha Ha Tonka is a it's a very cool band, very kind of like down the middle there. But this conversation is reminding me of a little bit, which is sort of like you know, the minute you start thinking about that, you're overthinking it. You know, it's like you know, you're overthinking that part of the process, and their stuff goes all the way from like alt country to crossover almost, I'm not gonna say like that borderline crossover top 100 kind of thing, but they stay just true to what they're feeling on that album and kind of what they're you know, they have all these instruments, they have all these ones, but it does, it's a dangerous game, isn't it? You know, as far as like that's a great question, Brandy, because I think overall, once you start, like he said, thinking about it, you're going down it's a very dangerous path because artistically it's a dangerous path. A little bit, seems like. Oh, yeah. Oh, I don't want to do this. Yeah, but that's like like you know, when you were asking, like, you know, what is it, is it performing or is it you know the writing or practicing or whatever? But the the writing is is really fun because there is like a problem solving aspect to it. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Whereas it's like you know, like I mean sometimes you don't know where it's going, and you literally you're just like, oh shit, here we are. Nice. Um but then yeah, but then sometimes you're just like, oh, I I know, I know, but I want this video. I know I have to chip away at the block and like I guess it's going but in the uh I think you a poet? Well, like what like what was the path to lyrics? Were you always a were you always a writer? You know what's funny is that I when I listen to music, I'm like not a lyrics person. I don't I don't pay attention to the lyrics, I just listen to the band. And I listen to like I can hear all of the different parts at once, and I love hearing the way that they communicate. It's kind of trippy. Yeah, and so for me, like like lyric writing, it also doesn't happen very often. Like I think Colton's a lot more prolific than I am in terms of like I think that you have like more output, and basically I'll have like a couple weeks out of like every year where like I write like two or three songs. And then I don't write for like three or four months. Yeah, it feels like I'm just four new ones. But yeah, yeah, lyrics, and I mean like there's obviously that's not like uh a hundred percent true all the time because I know a lot of lyrics to songs, but uh but yeah, it doesn't like they don't always click. I have to hear a song that maybe like 30 times before I start paying attention. Interesting words. I couldn't be more different. Yeah, totally. And that's how most people are, because everyone's just like, oh I, you know, like for for the most part, I feel like listeners are kind of like the thing that they're gonna identify with the quickest is the is the vocal, because it's like, you know, that's like the the language aspect of it, but that's not the language I speak a lot. And what's your thought? The the exact opposite. Like, if if I can't connect to what's being said, I kind of check out interestingly. Like I I like music to resonate with me. Um people don't want I mean, like I see both sides, obviously, because I was talking about the the the catharsis of writing cathartic music to go and live after going through something like the pandemic and wanting to make something that would make me feel like I was alive in it. And so that's great. And that mostly seems to be describing a music rather than what I'm gonna be talking about. Yeah. But you know, on the other hand, like I I really like to be moved by connecting to emotions that I'm here to describe to me, or ideas or things that I care about, or things that I want to, you know, that I want to chant the identify for. Uh like that's why I love writing some like we have a song called Reno Cure that I'm really proud of. That's one of my favorites of the case. Do you know about the Reno Cure? No, that that no that phrase. No. So it used to be almost impossible for women to divorce men in America, like all the way up until like the 70s or 80s. And so, where women would have to go to divorce their husbands if they wanted to be the ones to divorce their their spouse, they would have to go to Nevada. And so this created a whole industry around women on a temporary basis until they could become a resident of Nevada, moving to Reno just long enough to be a resident, and then they could divorce their husbands and then go back to wherever they came from. And so there was like, there's like like there's a Marilyn Monroe movie about it and stuff like that. But like, yeah, in the 50s and 60s, women from all over the country would go to Reno, stay there for like six weeks or whatever it was, and then divorce their husbands and go home. So I wrote a song about you know, uh a woman trying to get autonomy back in her life by moving to Reno and and divorcing her husband. Give us a couple of lines from that one, just spoken. Well, it opens up, yeah. Rosie was a shiner out of North Carolina where her ring was as good as a chain. So while the drunk was away, she booked a one way toward Reno on a westbound frame. Damn. That's good. That's good. That's really good. Now this will be one, and I know we're getting close, Dandy, but that that really leads into one of the questions I always kind of have in my head is like the nucleus of an idea like that, for this will be both, we'll go back and forth. Does it come in the middle of the night on a scratch pad? Is it an overall kind of cinematic vision of it? Do you is or do you don't know? Is there a process to your songwriting and how does it usually come? Single word, thought, beat. Yeah, because I actually I I realized that like of a lot of the not a lot of the songs, but a few of the songs that I have are like are kind of like the titles are almost based off of like sayings. Sure, yeah. And I like and I realized that I was doing that almost habitually. Yeah. Like whereas it's like, I mean, we have a we have a new one called Roll Your Own. Uh that's one of my face-to-face big spender. Like all of these, I'm just like, oh, these are like sayings and like phrases. I'm like, but people know what you mean when you say totally, yeah. And I think like I'm there must be like something to that where I just like to like, you know, some little phrase will just like stick in my mind, and then probably like yeah, when I have one of those like spirits of creative, it's like, oh yeah, it sounds great for commercial face to face like like for jingles and stuff, like like if someone gave you a you know, like a like a like a a one-liner tag or something like that, like you have to work with that really well. For sure, yeah. And you? What's what's your dude? I've had it all way like I've had that experience. We've talked about this, where like some songs write themselves in five minutes. It's great. Oh my god, like I heard the whole thing in my head, and all I had to do is like write it on the page for me because I commute to Monterey, and so and it used to be San Jose, and then before that it was Redwood City. So I've been doing long drives to do what I do for a while, and so much of what I've written is created a cappella while I drive. Gotcha. And I've also found that because when when I'm playing guitar, I'll go back to the same chords that I kind of always do. Like I'm I have a bad habit of working with like the same four chords, but when I make it up out of free air, like my mouth doesn't know what key I'm gonna sing in when I'm just humming. And so it's caused me to write songs that I probably wouldn't have if I had started on a guitar. I probably would have gone right back to where I was comfortable. The melodies will go places that you're not expecting it to. Yeah, it's sevens and diminished and all kinds of stuff. Like I wouldn't have done that. But do you record yourself in the car? Yeah. Yeah, the bass memos. Hey Yesco, I love that. I love that. Okay, I want to play. That's all I'm doing there. Yeah, we're we gotta we gotta let's start wrapping it up a little bit because I just wanted to make sure he's got it pulled up where where to find them, where they

Shows Calendar Charity And Closing Plugs

49:47

are. Yeah, so May 30th, we're at Redwood Mountain Fair. So that's a week from now. June 3rd, we're at Mo's. That's a really cool event. Yeah, that's a cool charity of it what's happened. The two-step for a cons. Oh, very cool. Yeah, it's like an additional Western Wednesday for the month where it's for for brain repair. So there's these hyperbaric chambers. That's like one of the only ways to repair brain brain functionality. And so there's a nonprofit that's giving people who otherwise wouldn't be able to get it access to these hyperbaric chambers. Healing brain waves? Is it M or no? If it's not, it's just really interesting. What was the what was Healing Brainwaves? Yes, that's who it is. We're doing a full article on the summer. I just met with Lindsay today. Oh, cool. We're doing an article in the Summer Vibes, just that's serendipity a little bit that you're doing that. That's a very cool organization. Oh, right on. That's amazing. Yeah, that'll be a good day. And then Outer Days is on June 20th. And then oh, Abbott Square is first Friday, July 3rd. Oh, that's gonna be good. That's gonna be really good. So, social media at Kentucky Real Music. Yeah, we got merch. We got some merch. T-shirt, yeah. Yeah, no, I can't wait for the T-Chap. Did you have a question? Well, best menu item right now, the Bayer, best menu item right now, jalapeno girl or the choke. Jeez. Oh no, that's always I'm always plugging that one. It's delicious. Well, I want to thank you, Will and Scott. Lizzie's here in spirit. We're gonna close out. Colton, sorry, Scott's not here. Scott's not here. Sorry, Colton. I'm just like Scott, you've got mentioned again, right? If you would have stopped apologizing, I could have edited it out. Yeah. No, I cannot. 2002. Thank you, Will and Colton. Yeah. I can do it now. Lizzie is not who are not here today. Trey Goza as well. And then Ariella plays keys from time to time. So she should give a shot as well. Nice. All right. Well, this is Brandon Jones at KW3F. I'm at 831-588-5145. I'm Buff Colt, Cross Country Mortgage, 831-818-2339. Don't forget Ryan's hideout vodka. Hide on vodka. Thanks, guys.